Meta Gaming: Its Not All Bad

Submitted by MrWigggles on Sun, 2011-09-18 17:41

This is a lecture I hosted on Bleach the Beginning Mush on Metagaming. In where, I discuss the different form of Metagaming, the good kinda and the bad kind. I also discuss about In Universe Reasons for character to perform actions verse performing actions because its a game.

[13:52:16] Tsurachi has joined this channel.
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[14:00:06] Kon says, "Okay dokey."
[14:00:18] Nieve says, "Hai"
[14:00:22] Rey waves
[14:00:23] Marorin says, "Indeed"
[14:00:28] Gloomweave waves
[14:00:30] Kon says, "Welcome to the Workshop channel."
[14:00:41] Ookata puts away his saw.
[14:00:49] Kon says, "Today we will be discussing the new favorite term of the mush, Metagaming."
[14:01:02] Kon says, "Before we began, some ground rules need to be made."
[14:01:21] Kon says, "First, this channel is not meant to entertain idle conversation. Please use debate chan or public for that."
[14:02:11] Kon says, "Second, if you have a question please use the command +raisehand. It will inform me that you have a question."
[14:02:41] Kon has a question.
[14:03:06] Kon says, "Alright, and I have my log going, so now I'll begin."
[14:05:24] Kon gets out his briefcase, and pulls out a stack of papers, then begins to shuffle them. "Metagaming, is not just one item. Its a series of concepts, that the term Metagaming gets used as a catch all. There is no real definition of Metagaming."
[14:06:30] Kon says, "Not all metagaming is bad, and what is allowed varies; depending on the type of role playing game, and the what the Game Master and fellow players are okay with."
[14:06:46] Kon says, "In fact, some metagaming cannot be avoided."
[14:07:11] Starrk has a question.
[14:07:32] Kon says, "Yes Starrk?"
[14:08:01] Starrk thinks you should describe the "concepts" that many apply to metagaming.
[14:09:00] Kon says, "Yes, thank you Starrk, that is one of my talking points."
[14:10:43] Kronos has joined this channel.
[14:10:58] Kon says, "Now, in my almost twenty years of role playing, and ten years of Mu*ing, I've come to breaking down Metagaming into four different concepts."
[14:11:52] Kon says, "First, is In Character to Out of Character cross over."
[14:12:30] Kon says, "A simple definition, is when you use information that a character cannot know, to justify or influence their actions."
[14:13:19] Kon says, "Now, this not only applies to simply, reading RP logs, and keeping that knowledge separate, but also toward what your Alts know."
[14:14:04] Kon says, "Everything your Alt knows and experience, should not influence how your other characters reacts."
[14:14:40] Kon says, "This is pretty simple rule of thumb, that even the most green horn role players get iniedaited with early."
[14:15:28] Kon says, "However, how one goes about separating this, is where you can do IC Cross, and not even mean to."
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[14:16:28] Ookata has a question.
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[14:16:41] Kon says, "For instance, relying on your previous character experiences, and knowledge about other characters t help your current character is IC/OOC Cross."
[14:16:46] Kon says, "Yes, Ookata?"
[14:17:15] Ookata says, "Would this be in the way that caused the trouble involving my zanpakuto that one time? The believing it could do what it couldn't simply by OOC hearsay?"
[14:18:37] Starrk says, "That's more along the lines of a misunderstanding coupled with the need to understand something OOCly to grasp it ICly."
[14:19:09] Kon says, "With you in particular, that I've seen and read, Ookata, is when your expunging on and on about your Alts previous experience and try to use that to influence and bolster the confidence of your fellow Shinigami is IC/OOC cross."
[14:19:54] Kon says, "Who your alt was, or what he has done, has no bearing on what your current character is doing."
[14:20:28] Kon says, "All the information you provide, about other character should be kept to what your character has seen and heard from other fellow characters."
[14:22:13] Kon says, "And there other means of IC/OOC Cross."
[14:23:16] Kon says, "On the TFOS Mux, they urge their players to not even allow Real Life events to influence their characters actions. Some of the examples they cite include; A friend asking you to not follow through on X, because its messing with his attempt to do Y."
[14:23:59] Kon says, "And yes, that is a from of IC/OOC Cross, and therefore metagaming."
[14:24:25] Kon says, "However, some Metagaming cannot be avoided."
[14:24:49] Kon says, "For instance, for here, when you get an announcement for an IC event, such as a Hollow Run, and your character shows up at that location, is IC/OOC Cross."
[14:25:05] Kon says, "However, how serve the metagaming is, depends on how you handle it."
[14:25:36] Tycho has a question.
[14:25:41] Kon says, "If you can provide your character with a reasonable excuse to be in the area or a reason to get to the area."
[14:25:47] Kon says, "Yes, Tycho?"
[14:26:41] Tycho only saw you cover two types and was hopeing for the full quadret before we moved on or segwayed.
[14:27:22] Kon says, "This is still covering IC/OOC Cross, just the different forms that term takes."
[14:28:19] Kon says, "For which, I'm almost done."
[14:29:43] Kon says, "Now, as I said earlier, attending a Hollow Run just do to its announcement is IC/OOC Cross."
[14:30:26] Starrk has left this channel.
[14:31:41] Kon says, "However, the severity of the metagaming depends on how you handle it; if you provide your character with a reasonable excuse to be there, or a reasonable method for showing up, then that lessens the amount of metagaming done."
[14:32:02] Kon says, "Please don't feel urged to start attacking within the first round."
[14:33:11] Kon says, "The second type of Metagaming, is breaking the forth wall."
[14:34:01] Kon says, "Its definition is similar to the one found with TV shows and movies, where the character acknowledges that it is a game and that they are fictional."
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[14:35:07] Kon says, "Now, this form of metagaming, most consider distracts from their immersion into the Game and makes it harder to respond to the offending character."
[14:35:28] Kon says, "However, how frowned upon, depends on the mush at hand. More comical ones, tend to fine with it."
[14:35:46] Kon says, "I'm guilty of this one myself, actually, its a part of my pose style."
[14:36:25] Kon says, "Though my character never acknowledges that he is fictional, or its a game, but the narrative in my poses, do."
[14:36:53] Marorin says, "+raisehand"
[14:37:06] Kon says, "Yes, Marorin?"
[14:37:42] Marorin says, "Using it in a narrative counts as metagaming then? I mean if your using it as the narrative your not really speaking through your character and thus out of the IC stuff right"
[14:37:45] Marorin says, "?*"
[14:38:13] Kon says, "It does yes."
[14:38:31] Kon says, "Because your narrative in your poses, should be respecting the Theme of the mush that its on."
[14:38:51] Marorin has a question.
[14:39:08] Kon says, "The Narritive is describing your characters actions, so even when you break through that, you're still detracting from the Mush IC universe."
[14:39:13] Kon says, "Yes, Marorin?"
[14:39:51] Marorin says, "Doesn't that then just technically break off your own personal 'voice'? I mean if everybody did that wouldn't we all sound the same?"
[14:41:59] Kon says, "Not really no. I can say this, because almost everyone can describe their character actions without breaking the forth wall."
[14:42:33] Kon says, "In my personal experience this is a form of metagaming, and I've pissed off a few folks, made them even sign off due to my breaking the forth wall."
[14:43:00] Kon says, "Such as, I wrote an opening pose from the PoV of a writers room, making an episode of DBZ:C"
[14:43:22] Marorin has a question.
[14:43:37] Kon says, "Ayanami laughed his ass off, but couldnt respond well to it."
[14:43:43] Kon says, "Yes Marorin?"
[14:44:35] Marorin says, "Hate to keep asking these questions I'm probably pushing off stuff even more than before. Anyways, what about a less severe version of breaking the fourth wall. Not exactly addressing stuff as if one's an actor in a show but well, referring indirectly to a genre convention?"
[14:46:35] Superbias has joined this channel.
[14:46:48] Kon says, "Well, to just to be clear, Breaking the Forth Wall, is metagaming."
[14:46:58] Kon says, "Even if you do it a little bit, you're metagaming a little bit."
[14:47:16] Kon says, "This doesn't mean that its bad, but it should be recognized as metagaming none the less."
[14:47:22] Raziel says, "It's fun to be Deadpool but if everyone's Deadpool not funny."
[14:47:50] Marorin says, "I just wanted to know your opinion on Leaning on the Fourth Wall"
[14:48:00] Marorin says, "Sorry for breaking turn"
[14:48:11] Kon says, "Raziel, please keep chatter off the Workshop channel. I apologize for not informing you earlier. ALso, Superbias, please use the +Raisehand command if you have questions."
[14:48:58] Kon says, "Now a form of Metagaming that is unique to mushes."
[14:49:17] Kon says, "Disallowing Character Reactions."
[14:50:29] Kon says, "Now, an example of this, is if you use descriptive language in your pose, which the character may wish to respond to. Like, "Takumi notices the buffoony of an Arr, Marorin walk into the bar."
[14:50:39] Kon says, "But cannot do so."
[14:50:53] Kon says, "The insult, in there, disallows Marorin from reacting."
[14:51:20] Mika has joined this channel.
[14:51:37] Kon says, "This can even be done for character thoughts as well. Takumi thinks to himself, 'What a baffoon' as he looks with disgust toward Marorin."
[14:52:28] Kon says, "This is should be avoided just due to common courtesy."
[14:53:06] Kon says, "The reason why this gets placed into the Metagaming group, because it can be used to for ill purpose and escape ICA=ICC."
[14:54:37] Kon says, "And the last form of Metagaming."
[14:54:50] Kon says, "Making choices based on Mechanics of the game."
[14:55:33] Kon says, "This is for simplicity, deciding that I'll do X attack because of Y affect. And completly ignoring the IC context of using that attack."
[14:56:11] Kon says, "For here(Bleach the Beginning), the biggest culprits, are spam locking and AoEs."
[14:56:56] Kon says, "Now, IC/OOC Cross cannot be avoided here."
[14:57:35] Kon says, "You're going to be going after attacks because you, the player, thinks it cool, or you the players, think that you're lacking in X area to round out your character."
[14:57:43] Starrk has joined this channel.
[14:57:54] Kon says, "Thats fine."
[14:58:13] Kon says, "What you have to remember when you're applying for spiffy new attacks and defenses is IC motivation for getting them."
[14:58:36] Kon says, "You the player, may know that you need a psi defense. However, this does not mean that you the /character/ knows that he needs a Psi defense."
[14:58:43] Mika has a question.
[14:58:46] Kon says, "Yes, Mika?"
[15:00:50] Mika says, "So basically, I'm a new player, but we should focus on what our character's fighting styles are, not on what we think will make combat monsters, right? Like if our character is based on Offensive abilities, don't try to create an uber defense? That sound about right?"
[15:02:26] Kon says, "Yes, exactly. And in my experience, you'll have a more colorful fighting array, with some seemingly out of character skills."
[15:02:55] Kon says, "For example, from my own RPing history, Kyle, was the mush de facto Paladin, and de facto Teacher, defacto Team Good Leader."
[15:03:14] Kon says, "But he had one of the most horrific attacks on the game."
[15:03:45] Kon says, "A large meat grinder, made out of little serrated ki balls that turn inward, trapping whatever it was inside, until they were paste."
[15:04:04] Kon says, "And he created this attack, out of unadulterated fear."
[15:04:32] Kon says, "The attack itself was out line with the rest of the attacks I've had for Kyle."
[15:05:49] Kon says, "Now, that you have these spiffy skills, you know what their mechanic affects are does not mean that should be the sole reason for using them."
[15:06:16] Kon says, "Every action your character does, should come from an IC motivation first, and mechanical consideration second."
[15:06:29] Raziel has a question.
[15:06:38] Marorin has a question.
[15:06:38] Kon says, "Yes Raziel?"
[15:06:53] Raziel says, "Is I want to win/beat X character a valid ic motivation?"
[15:07:10] Kon says, "Its a shallow one."
[15:07:45] Kon says, "If you're going to be going with that kinda of reasoning, then you can use it to motivate anything."
[15:08:01] Kon says, "That will lessen your RP quality, and will lessen the RP qualify of the scene at large."
[15:08:27] Kon says, "Are you seeing, what I'm getting at, Raziel?"
[15:08:43] Raziel says, "Yes I see what you are getting at"
[15:08:55] Kon says, "Alright. Marorin, you had a question?"
[15:09:52] Marorin says, "How about, taking an example I did a while ago, 'Viewing a crazed telekinetic certain magistrate person taken over by a mental attack' gave Maro the idea of making say... a tattoo to prevent that happening to himself? That's a viable reason?"
[15:10:04] Sosuke has joined this channel.
[15:10:50] Raziel says, "I wasn't magistrate at the time"
[15:11:14] Kon says, "As long as Marorin, the character, went something along the lines of; "Whoa, that could happen to me, and I totally don't want that happen to me, because !""
[15:11:19] Kon says, "Raziel, shush."
[15:11:45] Kon says, "The fill in the blank part, is what going to give that IC motivation a lot of color and personality."
[15:12:08] Kon says, "Even if its something as cliche as "because they can use my awesome power for nefarious purposes!""
[15:12:37] Marorin says, "Yeah."
[15:13:48] Kon says, "Now, every action your character does, should come from an IC motivation first, and a mechaical consideration second."
[15:14:34] Kon says, "Such as "I need to keep X off of Y!" Thats the IC motivation that then makes you look through your roller dex of actions, and see which action will best facilitate that IC need."
[15:14:40] Kon says, "And it must respect the IC context."
[15:15:28] Kon says, "If the group your fighting is spread out, chances are, you cannot not use an AoE (Area of Effect) on them."
[15:15:35] Superbias has a question.
[15:15:52] Kon says, "Yes, Superbias?"
[15:16:12] Nieve has a question.
[15:17:13] Superbias says, "While i understand IC circumstances as well as IC information creating the IC desire to pursue certain things, there are certain skill types (or were) that generally take care of that particular issue for you. Say a dodge versus a hard defense. That being the case, isn't it some time unavoidable or atleast accepted that you will game in a particular way based off of the fact that skills are created by staff?"
[15:18:57] Kon digests
[15:19:05] Kon puts on his reading glasses.
[15:19:44] Kon says, "Yes, as I've reiterated several times. Metagaming cannot be avoided."
[15:19:59] Kon says, "The goal is to lessen its severity."
[15:20:32] Kon says, "And this mechanical part, is going to have a rather complicated, no clear cut answer portion, that I'll be getting to soon."
[15:21:00] Kon says, "did you want a more verbose answer Superbias?"
[15:23:24] Superbias says, "That is fine. I am half here."
[15:23:30] Kon says, "Alright."
[15:23:38] Kon says, "Nieve, you had a question?"
[15:25:26] Nieve says, "With regard to positional awareness, how in your experience do you keep track without everyone detailing their location in a pose, and, while skills have flexibility in their pose, is it an acceptable form of metagaming, for an AoE to only hit the opposition in a mixed melee scene?"
[15:25:29] Sosuke has disconnected.
[15:26:11] Tycho has a question.
[15:27:45] Kon says, "Well, in in doubt. OOCly Ask. However, if you decided that you character was going to do an AoE, and after the conversation has ended, he wouldnt be able to hit everyone, then do it anyway. Its more real for that to happen in my opinion."
[15:27:54] Kon says, "Mushing is joint story telling"
[15:28:14] Kon says, "We here at BtBv1, have a combat system to act as a neutral arbiter for role playing."
[15:28:24] Kon says, "It is RP dependent."
[15:29:13] Kon says, "I would just go, "Hey, I'm going to be using an AoE, can we get a rough placing where everyone is.""
[15:29:26] Kon says, "And hit everyone you're suppose to hit."
[15:29:41] Kon says, "Do not just avoid allies, if the attack cannot tell friend from foe."
[15:30:44] Tycho has a question.
[15:30:44] Kon says, "I consider it a sign of a mature Roleplayer, when they proceed with an action that they know will be detrimental to themselves or their allies, because it what they would do in that circumstance."
[15:31:23] Kon says, "Yes, Tycho?"
[15:33:17] Tycho would like to know how you delinitate between positive and negitive metagaming and also how you delinitate severity. "Based on your examples i cant see it as a entirly negitive thing, any time you have a group of pople creating a story together things that make it more fun are positive, so long as they arnt detrmental down the line. So where do you draw the line? Why there? how do you find this line?"
[15:33:35] Marorin has disconnected.
[15:33:55] Kon wipes his reading glasses, and digests the question.
[15:34:27] Kon says, "I'm going to be putting a pin on that question, and come back to it later."
[15:34:48] Tycho puts it in a notepad.
[15:35:30] Kon says, "Now, as I said before the combat system employed here at BtBv1 is a neutral arbiter and Rp dependent."
[15:36:42] Kon says, "No system can be made to cover all possible reality. Mushes have a difficulty here, because we dont have a GM at hand for every instance of combat."
[15:37:17] Kon says, "Therefore, we don't. The Combat system, limits some general Do and Donts, and we do have some rules that are not coded in, to make a more fair and balance game play."
[15:37:33] Kon says, "How I try to limit my metagaming with these rules is to give them IC qualities."
[15:38:09] Kon says, "The Attack limitations, I see as a time duration thing. I can only do so many X actions at once. ect ect"
[15:38:26] Kon says, "There also a really good rule of thumb; Dont be a Dick."
[15:38:33] Sosuke has connected.
[15:39:06] Kon says, "The Golden rule. We're here to have fun. Its jount story telling. We're suppose to be having joint fun together. So, don't be a dick."
[15:39:20] Mika has a question.
[15:39:32] Kon says, "Yes Mika?"
[15:41:21] Mika knows its a little late to ask this, but thought about it. "What if we have allies on our team, and the allies are people that we hate? Like I have Berserk, and when I see Quincys I attack them. But what if I was on a Team with a Quincy? It would be IC for me to attack them, but just as IC to be Loyal to my commander who made a command to work with them."
[15:44:14] Kon says, "You have your questioned answered there."
[15:44:32] Kon says, "The beserk stance, states you kinda of go crazy and do not think things through."
[15:44:41] Kon says, "If in general you'd attack Quinces then do so."
[15:45:05] Superbias has a question.
[15:45:10] Kon says, "Yes Superbias?"
[15:45:57] Superbias says, "I wonder if it would not be a better practice to approach the way that we RP differently. Sort of like you would in free form but with the code there simply to make it official. However i suppose the underlying problem si that being able to identify metagaming may still be hard or it may not fix that issue at all..."
[15:46:15] Superbias asked more of an opinionated clarification than a question.
[15:47:36] Kon says, "As I said at the start, there is no definition of Metagaming. I believe there can't be."
[15:47:52] Raziel has a question.
[15:48:12] Kon says, "I'll address this question more later, along with Tycho question."
[15:48:15] Kon says, "Yes Raziel?"
[15:49:37] Raziel says, "What about roll metagaming if there is such a thing. Example I attack with a standard that has a score of 145, the player I'm attacking knows they can't defend with a standard and win so instead they go with a medium, is that metagaming or just mechanics?"
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[15:50:44] Kon says, "It depends on how it handles."
[15:51:16] Kon says, "If the existent of the chain of logic was, "That roll nessicates a Med or high defense" then its metagaming."
[15:51:35] Kon says, "Thats ignoring IC context."
[15:52:29] Kon says, "However, if they were to use that high number and translate it into something IC, like they can feel the breadth of power of the attack, and of course using descriptive clues from your pose, then they can use that as a chain of logic to use a beefier defense."
[15:52:42] Kon says, "An example from DBZ. Because its one of my favorite show."
[15:53:15] Kon says, "Nappa and Vegeta were fighting the heros, and Krillian throws his destructo disk at Nappa."
[15:53:20] Hao has disconnected.
[15:53:32] Kon says, "Now, in the context of here, the attack would probably have rolled decently high."
[15:53:41] Hao has connected.
[15:54:12] Kon says, "However, Nappa, stuck to his character guns, and was going to defend the attack because such a poweriful attack coming from the earthlings didnt even enter his mind."
[15:54:15] Leinesa has joined this channel.
[15:54:20] Yasashii has disconnected.
[15:54:39] Kon says, "He was using IC context to decide his IC actions."
[15:54:41] Yasashii has connected.
[15:54:44] Marorin has connected.
[15:54:55] Kon says, "Did that answer the question, Raziel?"
[15:55:15] Raziel says, "Yep"
[15:55:30] Yasashii has disconnected.
[15:55:34] Kon says, "Alright."
[15:55:51] Superbias has a question.
[15:55:56] Kon says, "Yes Superbias?"
[15:56:01] Stavros has joined this channel.
[15:56:31] Superbias says, "What about in the instance where we have skills that are progressions of other skills? Doesn't that sort of blurr the line in the case of Dodge I Dodge II or Dodge III?"
[15:58:04] Kon says, "It can, but it depends on how you take these skills."
[15:58:16] Kon says, "As an example; Lets say you have Dodge 1-3."
[15:58:36] Kon says, "Dodge 3 would represent your character maximum aptitude for dodging."
[15:58:55] Kon says, "When you use lower level dodges, then you can be ICly going, "I dont need to put 100 percent effort to evade this attack.""
[15:59:18] Kon says, "In essence, you're holding back."
[16:00:00] Superbias says, "Thus it is sort of "reverse" metagaming to "hold back" based on the "ICly assumed" power of attacks."
[16:00:08] Superbias assumes.
[16:00:41] Kon says, "Yea. You cannot avoid Metagaming."
[16:01:13] Superbias nods. "I may be asking the same question. I apologize."
[16:08:19] Kon says, "Alright, I think that more or less covers it."
[16:08:26] Kon says, "Now to go back to Tycho question."
[16:08:33] Tycho says, "want a repost?"
[16:08:38] Kon says, "Yes"
[16:08:45] Tycho would like to know how you delinitate between positive and negitive metagaming and also how you delinitate severity. "Based on your examples i cant see it as a entirly negitive thing, any time you have a group of pople creating a story together things that make it more fun are positive, so long as they arnt detrmental down the line. So where do you draw the line? Why there? how do you find this line?"
[16:10:19] Kon says, "There are none."
[16:10:37] Kon says, "Metagaming is something, that those who are serious about Role Playing as a hobby, and want to get better at, have to struggle with."
[16:11:14] Kon says, "They will have to develop a gut instinct for it, which comes from serious Role Playing, and looking back at your past actions seeing what your chain of logic was."
[16:11:33] Kon says, "And, I went beyond that in some respect."
[16:11:54] Kon says, "I went and read about it, which there is scant literature on it, and hosted conversations about it, for years."
[16:12:33] Kon says, "I started to do that, when it dawned on my that RP style was metagaming, this combined with my need to not "cheat" compelled me to gain a better understanding."
[16:13:18] Tycho nods,"That dosent awnser my question though."
[16:13:42] Superbias hates to interject, but might be able to help.
[16:16:08] Kon says, "Sure, go for Superbias."
[16:16:15] Kon says, "for it*"
[16:17:55] Superbias says, "The way that this problem is approached in free form RP is a common ground and understanding prior to the scene taking place. Really, the only way to mitigate metagaming is for mutual respect because metagaming in and of itself is not a bad thing. It is when it is abused or inappropriate. Unfortuantely alot of people here are very antagonistic and don't tend to work together to make a scene entertaining more than competative. So... fixing that problem is the "solution" i've found based on my experiences."
[16:19:03] Marorin has a question.
[16:20:19] Superbias says, "Thus obvious the threshold for such interactions is decided by the group RPing."
[16:21:55] Kon says, "Yea, I said something similar at the start of the Workshop."
[16:22:03] Kon says, "I'm sorry for not answeting your question Tycho."
[16:22:13] Kon says, "Yes Marorin?"
[16:22:41] Marorin says, "Could you say the very theme and the fact we're based on a Shonen can lead into this type of competitive behavior?"
[16:22:47] Nieve has a question.
[16:23:29] Ookata has a question.
[16:23:33] Marorin says, "It's a tad more general but I feel its in the realm of the topic and is an extension of what Superbias is saying"
[16:23:42] Kon says, "No. What leads to this competitive behavior is absent of the Mush theme and what we're based on."
[16:23:48] Kon says, "We're a competitive mush."
[16:23:52] Starrk has left this channel.
[16:23:56] Kon says, "We're also faction based in a limited sense."
[16:24:00] Tycho says, "thats closer tot eh kind of awnser i was looking for. In essance, the fact that we are playing a game, the we have actions that are limited by more then our whimsy means that metagamin happens constantly as you have described it. A given action adn the reaction to that in context are IC if and only if they are based in the continum of the narritive.

BUT we as players construct the narritve and thus conqunces and actions, thier reactions adn all of that are with the realms of out control. Since a gm is not available for every scene we are in part responsible for our own conqunces, to whit, we need to plan our own moves and poses within context.

an example would be out of 5 arrencar one of them i know to be a healer icly, given that knowlege he woule be the most sensible target, because he can repair damage i would do to other characters. This is a descions bound by game mechanics but it is also in character, so it is metagamin but with context it seems approriate to me.

So, Kon, given that any action we do with consideration to the rules and framework of the mush is metagamin, saying 'metagaming is bad' is just silly. Where do you draw the line and why do you draw it there."
[16:25:48] Sosuke has reconnected.
[16:25:58] Kon Reads the statement.
[16:26:41] Kon says, "I'll be right back. I have to use the restroom and get more coke."
[16:27:16] Yasashii has connected.
[16:28:04] Yasashii has disconnected.
[16:28:45] Kon is back
[16:29:11] Mika has a question.
[16:29:27] Yasashii has connected.
[16:30:20] Kon says, "Well, Tycho, you can ask yourself a few questions if you feel an action is suspect."
[16:31:04] Kon says, "What is my chain of thought for doing this? What are the IC Contexts? Am I being a dick?"
[16:31:36] Kon says, "The last one, is a metagaming examination of your actions."
[16:31:42] Stavros loves that last one.
[16:32:08] Loly has a question.
[16:32:22] Kon says, "And you're going to really need to judge for yourself."
[16:32:33] Kon says, "A good bench mark, I've used is; Did I piss everyone off?"
[16:32:51] Kon says, "If the answer to that question is yes; then you've dun goofed."
[16:33:12] Kon says, "Alright, Mika, what is your question?"
[16:33:31] Kon says, "Wait moment."
[16:34:54] Loly says, "And just to chime in to add on to what Kon said... I remember points in my past where I have metagamed -against- my IC actions, because I knew that what the character would actually do would be less benificial to the scene, and serve to hurt feelings. If you are a brutal murdering Arrancar, and you best a much weaker shinigami that poses falling to the ground unconcious, ICly you'd probably just end him. But, that might not be in the best interests for the actual scene, and it would probably not be something the Shinigami player liked."
[16:35:36] Kon says, "That goes back to the question; Am I being a Dick?"
[16:35:41] Loly nods.
[16:37:36] Kon says, "Nieve, I believe you had a question."
[16:40:03] Kon pokes Nieve
[16:40:17] Hao says, "She is typing please give her a second"
[16:40:42] Kon says, "Okay dokey."
[16:42:02] Nieve says, "Brought up by the remark on the MUSH being shonen, and the fact that we have PC players in multiple factions, where does metagaming fall in the context of I'm a good guy so I must win and I will stop at nothing to win, in an IC vs Being a dick. I see Loly's input, but it is necessary for the purpose of driving the story then, for all sides to come out on top yes? If we wish to avoid ooc and IC cross, then it's not plausible to plan ahead of time who will win, but it should be based on convention of the theme, or should it? Where is the justifiable metagaming then, IC reasoning, being a dick, ic/ooc cross, and good rp all factored in? Do you just then fall back to the rolls or... ?"
[16:42:49] Sosuke has partially disconnected.
[16:43:59] Kon reads
[16:46:43] Kon says, "tries to answer it."
[16:49:07] Kon says, "Well, you're Alts goals should be distinct and separate from each other. When you are playing your alt, Play your Alt. Try to get your Faction to "win", and win is a hairy word here, so lets use, "do well or better" I wouldnt worry about your other Alts as you play the active Alt. As for when the faction of your Alts are fighting..."
[16:50:20] Kon says, "The second part, is quite tricky, I dont really have an answer for it."
[16:51:50] Kon says, "The Mush as a whole does not have a set narrative. No side is suppose to "win.""
[16:52:19] Kon says, "Personally, I'm rooting for the Bounts to raise up and take out both HM and SS."
[16:53:12] Stavros got ICly accused of attacking an Alt ;)
[16:54:13] Stavros says, "I didn't, but the characters only assumed after describing the nature of the attack."
[16:55:07] Rey has a question.
[16:55:11] Kon says, "Go for it Rey."
[16:57:30] Rey says, "So my question is whats the best way to resolve metagaming, negative metagaming, I mean I know one solution is try to call in staff to mediate but that sounds really unfair to have them have to come in and problem solves things like that all the time. On tap of that, and I really don't mean any offense to staff, some time they just aren't around , so what are the best ways of mediating and dealing with negative metagaming?"
[16:58:47] Kon reads
[17:00:00] Kon says, "Talk it out."
[17:00:10] Superbias says, "I have to pack it up so last thing from me @Rey: Exclusion. What you cannot fix then, you fix later by disallowing it. Rules set for a scene before hand (like no death consent) help. Sorry for interjecting again, cya all later.""
[17:00:18] Superbias has disconnected.
[17:00:42] Kon says, "Or use the spiffy 25 cent word, exclusion."
[17:00:47] Kon says, "Mr. College Boy. 8b"
[17:01:20] Kon says, "But yea, talk it out with the group at hand."
[17:01:46] Kon says, "If an agreement cannot be met between the players at hand, then either fade to black from the scene, or put it on pause."
[17:03:15] Kon says, "You can still be competitive but you should work together for the scene."
[17:03:32] Rey says, "Thank you"
[17:08:08] Kon says, "Alright. Well, I think thats about it."
[17:08:16] Kon says, "Any other questions out there?"
[17:08:36] Raziel says, "I think you answered it all ready"
[17:09:07] Kon says, "Alright."
[17:09:54] Kon says, "Well, I hope I gave yall a firmer understanding on Metagaming. I know I pointed out that is a foggy subject with out a lot of clear lines of What is or isn't bad Metagaming."